We are so honored to have Carl Carter join us on this very important episode of Hustle Humbly where we cover Realtor safety. Following his mother’s tragic death, Carl started the Beverly Carter Foundation dedicated to the ideal that every agent goes home safe every day by providing scientifically based research, information, consulting, training, and support at no charge to every MLS, association, brokerage, and agent. Carl shares with us his mother’s story and gives tactical advice and tips on how other Realtors can keep themselves safe.

The following is a rough transcript provided by Otter.ai.

0:00
The following episode is an interview with Carl Carter Jr, who recounts the circumstances and details surrounding his mother’s death. This material may not be suitable for all audiences

0:16
Hi, y’all, welcome to hustle humbly.

0:18
It’s Alyssa and Katie and we are two top producing realtors in the Baton Rouge market working for two different companies where we should be competitors. But we have chosen community over competition.

0:28
The goal of our podcast is to show you hustle can be healthy when you have the humility to do it your way.

0:33
So stop comparing yourself and start embracing your strength.

0:42
Episode is Number What did I say? Six. This is number six, and is going to air on September 16. So that is during realtor Safety Month. And we chose that specifically, we wanted to touch on these topics during that timeframe. But Carl, we’re gonna let you kind of introduce yourself and let us know who you are.

1:04
Okay, well, I’m so honored to be able to talk to you guys this afternoon. My name is Carl Carter and I am a realtor in the Little Rock Arkansas area. And I always say that none of that is important. What is what is most important is that I am my mother’s son. My my sweet mom was Beverly Carter. And unfortunately, and coincidentally, during realtor Safety Month, five years ago, my mom was was kidnapped while showing property and was ultimately murdered. And so what an honor to be able to talk to you guys today about ways that agents can stay safe and and hopefully learn from what happened to my sweet mom.

1:46
Yeah, absolutely. And that was one question we had, when we were looking up all of our information. We didn’t know if she started realtor safety month because it happened in September, we didn’t know how long realtor safety month had even been around.

2:00
So she certainly catapulted it to a different level. So after after my mom. So another coincidence was that, you know, this happened to my mom in the fall of 2014. And so going into 2015 na ARS president was actually from Arkansas. And so he really took on the the platform of safety and took the whole like nar.org forward slash safety, like built on all those resources in kind of in response to my mom, so certainly appreciative of that.

2:33
Yeah, for sure. That is amazing that someone from Arkansas was the president at that time. Oh, crazy. Yeah. So we’re our podcast does attract a lot of new agents, and we are approaching your mom’s five year anniversary. Do you mind sharing the story? Just kind of the details that you have of it? I know she had some systems in place, because I remember, she had some friends that she had told where she was going, and can you just unfold the story for us of what happened that day?

3:05
Yeah. I’d be happy to. And I’ll tell you, especially for those of you new agents that may be listening in to this. It’s important. And I think you guys would echo this, that we use this as a learning opportunity and not as a platform to scare you or make you afraid of this wonderful industry. My mom would certainly give me a thump on the head for that. So it’s all about raising education and awareness. So that being said, I would I would love to just start by telling you a little bit about who she was, yes, she was at the broker level here in in Arkansas. And she, she had been in the business for a while she was a she was a seasoned agent. She was seen as one of the top producers in the Central Arkansas area consistently. And then at times, within the top 10 within the entire state of Arkansas. Oh my god. So, you know, it’s always funny because as I have opportunities to travel north america and talk about mom, you know, I, you know, people find it hard to believe there are more than 10 agents in the state of like, believe it or not, they’re 1000. But she’s so good. And you she’s just one of those like, so since my mom’s passing. My family has gotten into real estate. And so we felt like how hard it can be break into this industry. So tough. And we look back, you know, to us, she was just mom, but we look back at how successful she was. And it’s like, hush,

4:41
how does she do this?

4:43
How did she do this? And so you know, let’s start there. So let’s start with with safety. Tip number one, regardless of how many transactions you’ve had, regardless of what is in your checking account right now, and I can promise you if he saw mine, he would just get a good giggle out Have it is that regardless of any of that, there is a public perception that people in this industry are wildly successful and wildly rich. And you know, it’s common practice among, you know, we see the real estate memes. And we hear the real estate coaches and different things. And they say, you know, fake it till you make it. And that’s what sales industries can be all about. So we certainly put our best face forward, and we drive cool cars. And all that. So there is that. And that was the case with my mom. My mom was targeted because and this is the bad guy himself has said this a number of times that he might they chose my mom, because she was an I quote, a rich broker that worked alone, well, by kind of societal standards of what people think about real estate agents that applies to all of us. Because they had no idea, you know, that my mom, like, so many of us lived commission check to commission check. And so whenever, you know, yeah, you know, looking back on it, and I’ve done, you know, interviews and, and people are always, like, people outside our industry are a little like, they’re, they’re like, Well, I mean, aren’t you kind of asking for trouble if you’re doing marketing and billboards and you have isn’t that I’m like, No, welcome to Real Estate, it’s what we do, right. So that being said, we let’s all start this, this, this podcast off by just acknowledging the fact that any of us can be a target, literally any of us. One thing about my mom’s case that I think is important is, you know, when we talk about simple ways to to keep ourselves safe, we always want to say, Hey, make use of the resources that you have available to you. And so that can be like Google your client, see if they have a Facebook account, and if it’s public, and you know, if they’re out there and you find them, you know, do they seem a little unhinged, you know, whatever it may be, not just that you may be trying to assess their bad guy, you might just kind of be trying to assess their temperament. And it’s, it’s an eerie thought that it’s true. Like, for in my mom’s case, after they call out this husband, wife that that kidnapped my mom and murder my mom. They they got their laptop, that from their home. And it was part of the evidence that was presented in the trial. And found within the search history of that laptop was Google searches related to my mom, they had gone to my mom’s Facebook profile and dug all around in there. And they saw things like vacation photos, and we hear you know, I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve heard the safety tips about being careful what you share online, because you can get the perception that that, you know, they that you’re wealthier than you are. And we all admit we had this, this tradition of every you know, we’re just working for you guys. So it’s like, every, you know, every summer we would make, you know, the trek down to what we call the Redneck Riviera. And, you know, it was nothing fancy. I mean, my goodness, it was just like, such a humble little beach vacation. But to to these bad guys. Like, that was one of the things that they had dug around in and it could have been part of their decision. And, and isn’t that weird. And it’s also like, a little troubling, because so many of us in real estate, our and even mine today with this, you know, being keto microspheres with my mom, like my Facebook profile is 100% public because I like to be accessible to those that I seek to serve. And so I have to be mindful and very judicious in what I’m posting, you know, if I’m posting my five year old at, you know, soccer practice, and I needed to really make, okay, let’s think let’s think who could be looking at this and lock this puppy down. So But back to my mom’s story. They had done a number of those Google Facebook searches, they also go into property records, and searched and found the property value of my mom, Mom’s home. And so they built out this entire scenario that this this real estate agent was like, so rich, when she wasn’t but they certainly thought she was so they formulated this plan to to kidnap her and hold her for ransom. And their plan was to get all of this, you know, all of this perceived wealth from from my dad. And I’ll admit, you know, evidence, although I don’t know the details of it, but we do know from the investigators that that this husband and wife when they were seeking people, lone workers, people that work alone that that they could kidnap and hold her wrists and they they did They actually did a little bit of research, it wasn’t just real estate that they were interested in, they were also looking at multi level marketing. And, you know, traveling nurses can be at risk. And we so we know that there was, they had a bit of a list going, wow. And while we may never know, you know, my mom’s specifically, you know, we do know that she was well known within our community as being a success, successful agent. But, um, if I may, I’d love to kind of step back two weeks before that, showing ya day where she was kidnapped. And really, I would encourage anybody listening to this, like, put yourself in this scenario right now, you your phone rings, and first conversation you have with with this new, you know, a exciting new lead, you’re talking about husband and wife. Before long, you’re emailing both husband and wife, you’re texting because life. So you have phone calls, texts, and emails. And their story is, you know, we need to get into a property quickly. We love those scenarios, right there, cash buyers, faster closings, loving it. And then, you know, they relocating to, to work really need to get into property quickly. And so, you know, my mom is talking about husband and wife, and really, in a lot of ways seems like a kind of a dream scenario, right? Because you’re just like, this is this is good. And really, if we can pause for a moment, for those of you that that may be familiar with my mom’s story, or if you’re not go look up, you know, Beverly Carter and see if you can find photographs of this couple. And I don’t mean the photographs from them from the trial where they, you know, everybody, you know, looks bad in a jumpsuit, or behind bars, but look at them in there every day. I mean, this was a young, attractive couple that my mom had built relationship with him was really seeking to help them. My mom back in the day, it’s so funny, like, I think that you guys will laugh at this, like, I used to give my mom the hardest time because she kept like all of these paper files and all of her, her clients. And she had like these huge filing cabinets in our office like row after row. And I’d be like Lum. You know, at that time it was 2014. Now it’s like not get with the time, right. And now that I’m in real estate, I keep a paper. But you know it, you don’t want it the most damning pieces of evidence within within the trial itself was that paper file? Because my mom while she’s getting to know them, she had actually gone through the process of utilizing, you know, it was it was informal, but it was certainly documented on Who are these people? What is their contact information? What are they looking forward to home, and she had had these conversations, and moreover, and kind of to the point that you mentioned earlier, she she was really trying to find them a home quickly. So she had talked this couple up in the within her own brokerage, because she was like, Hey, guys, if you know of anything about hit the market, please let me know. So it’s like it when mom went missing. Like, it was weird, because this wasn’t one of those deals that you’re just kind of doing and you know, you just kind of suffered through it, you know, silently, like literally everyone in her office knew about this couple. And like so many of us in real estate, God bless the people that that that we partner with, because you know, our spouses and boyfriend girlfriend, they have to hear, you know, all the ins and outs of our real estate deals, and good bad and indifferent and my poor dad, you know, I mean, he had just gone you know, he knew he knew so much about and and people were a little bit surprised by that like the investigators and different people are like, wait when Beverly missing? I mean how do you know that she was working with these people so really good. Safety reminders there it’s it’s always good if you to build relationships, not only within your brokerage but within your family unit, your friends, your support group to so that people know where you are and who you’re working with. And I think back to what technology book like and you know, GPS sharing, sharing services, what we have access to on these these phones. I mean, you know, it’s so much more advanced in just five years and how we can share with with those that we love.

14:36
But I’ll say something that I think it’s important about this story is that although all of these these great things that happened and it’s all progressing nicely and something happens and my mom gets a she gets a call from the husband one day and he says we want to see this specific problem and what was A little, I’ll just use the word funny or odd about that particular property as my mom was very well familiar with this property. This property was bank owned had been foreclosed on a long time ago, there have been issues of squatters, there have been I mean, there have been issues of people getting in their units like this properties have been sitting so long that and it’s so unguarded, that people are like getting in to rip out the copper and just what was once a gorgeous home is now just dilapidated, almost right. So not only to factor in that, that kind of, I’m not trying to waste my time showing you this property, because gross, right. But also this, I want to counter that with this was actually, essentially my mom’s neighborhood, my parents lived on like one property, and just around the lake was where this property was located. Just a few doors down was where my mom’s pastor lived. Although this home was in a state of disarray, from from the photographs that were, and there was just a handful of them available online at that point. It really didn’t seem like that bad of a house, you certainly couldn’t tell from the exterior, that that it was in the trouble that it was in, you know, large, half acre lots on the lake, you know, whenever I’m presenting in in person, I like to show people that, that home with the property description, but these fancy flowy words from an agent, you know, to sell this house, and I’m like, guys, all it takes is 1.1 Show me. And that’s a harsh reality, and it’s uncomfortable for us, especially when we think about those of us that are in the business 24/7 thinking about, Okay, wow, it literally only takes one, it only took one for Beverly, back to my mom, whenever she got that request to see that property to you know, to show that property that day. She it was a red flag for her. And we’ll never know exactly why it could be because she knew that the house was in a state of disarray. It could have been the tone of of the husband. But you know, whatever you call it, that gut instinct, the spidey sense, whatever it was, something wasn’t right. And so she did something. And I love this safety tip. In the moment, in that phone call, she made a company policy. So there were new policies on safety back then, within her brokerage anyway. And so she said, you know, hey, I’m so sorry. But company policy prohibits me from showing property alone in a rural area. And so, really, right, you have your words, you don’t necessarily feel empowered, just throw it back on the brokerage. And I can’t think of a brokerage across the country that I’ve had the opportunity to talk to that would ever be against that. What my mom didn’t anticipate, and back to that whole, you know, kind of profiling, what is a bad guy look like? You can’t do that. Because a bad guy doesn’t take particular shape, or a particular gender.

18:10
I would just totally, like, let my guard down the moment that it was a husband and a wife.

18:16
Oh, and so many people, you’re not alone in that, like I would have to, we just don’t associate violent crimes with women. I mean, we just do not. And so what that husband did in that moment is that he turns the phone, you know, hands the phone over, essentially to the wife and says, and she’s like, Hey, girl, I’m going to be there to I’m going to be coming straight from work with your company. We’d be cool with that. And, and she’s like, well, like so many of us would she is? Sure. I’ll, I’ll meet you guys there. And undoubtedly gave them some warnings about the property. We do know that she did alert them that there was no utilities that they would have to meet at 6pm before dark. And so the day came and I’ll tell you guys, I remember like it was yesterday. Like it was a gorgeous, you know, be September 25. And so it was like, finally the heat had started to kind of go away. You know, it’s getting cooler at nights. And it was just, it was a Thursday. And so they were going to meet at 6pm and my mom and it had a day like every real estate agent ever. It’s like she had a sales meeting at the office and she had gone in it’s 150 bucks on a raffle so that was exciting. She she called my dad and she’s like, and you know, you can always hear like my mom was so like energetic and chipper and lovely but um, but you can almost hear the tone in her voice like we don’t know what she said to my dad but what we do like it was probably something like hey, just got a sales meeting and gotta show property this couple I swear to God if I did not find them a property soon I’m gonna lose money or something like that. But um, but we do know that. When she called my dad and another safety tip. She told my dad exactly where she was going. She told my dad that she was showing property of that specific house, then my, my dad was actually familiar with that home too. And she told him the time of the showing, and that you’d pick up dinner with her $50 raffle winnings afterwards. And I’ll tell you, when my mom got to the house that day she got there early, which is amazing and rare. So those of you that are new agents get in that amazing practice of getting to your properties early. Not only is it good professionalism, but it’s good for your safety as well. But my mom got there early. And there are a number of safety reminders that we can kind of interject here about, you know, kind of doing a quick threat analysis to see if anyone could be you know, lurking anywhere or you know, it is best you can tell if there have been any forced entry or not letting your car get blocked in, and the driveway, those types of things. But I’ll tell you, this is the most probably the most important thing and what I’m going to say it’s coming right up, and that is that the husband got to the property first. And he gets out of his car, and he starts in with the excuses. And in the Times who sorry, my wife got caught the work, she’s not gonna be able to join us today. And because there were so few pictures online of this house, if you just go ahead and show the house to me, and as you walk through the property, if you will pull out your cell phone and just text photos to my wife, it will be a it’ll give her you know, a better indication of what the interior of this house looks like. And it’ll be a give her the opportunity to ask questions, and be as though she’s on this showing virtually kind of digital. And about that time a mom gets a text message from the wife with mirroring that story. Like, Hey, girl, so sorry. Do you mind taking photos and going through this problem?

21:58
And tell you this? The couple did they tell this after the fact?

22:03
Yeah. So the way some of it was put together with farmworkers, okay. And then ultimately, the wife ended up taking a plea deal. And kind of in exchange for her truthful testimony got a lot of sense. So we were able to piece some of this together, okay. But really probably the most telling thing I discovered on my own. And that was at the conclusion of the trial. And it is awful. My mom’s cell phone was found in the home of these bad people. And

22:41
okay, so she, so she agreed, and she started. She did, she did and so it’s shaping the wife pictures.

22:49
Yes, she’s walking into the house, she’s taking taking photos, text them to the wife having a conversation with the wife. And, you know, kind of the point of my mom’s phone being found at the bad guy’s house. The last 10 photos on my mom’s Camera Roll were up the interior of this home. And so it was after taking that last photograph that my mom turned and she was met by that husband that had a taser in her side, and a roll of the most ridiculous lime green duct tape. And if you guys have kids that like craft time with you know, the tape, it’s it’s that silly, absurd. You know, like, you just see rules of duct tape and you just think of silly craft time you don’t think of it being capable of,

23:42
of kidnapping your mom, right?

23:45
But that bad guy, he he took that tape. And after teasing the mom, and he did a solid row, that tape kind of around her head over her eyes and around her head over her mouth. He taped her hands behind her back and her ankles together. He then went outside and got his car and turned it around and backed it up to the house and open the trunk of the car and went back inside. And I you know kind of your point of like, how do you play? How do you piece some of these things together? How do you know that they happen? And like, here’s another safety tip like we know all those things happen with this young Caucasian male walks out of the house. Two cars being there gets in his car, he backs it up. He opens up the trunk. We know all of that because the next door neighbor saw every bit of that. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And so it was like you don’t want to be that that neighbor that feels intrusive or like you’re being nosy and so you hate to say something. And so truly this is a situation that saying something in the moment really wouldn’t made a big difference. But that bad guy I took my sweet mom and put her in the trunk of that car. And I will tell you, it is, I can say the words, I’m thankful that my brain doesn’t actually let me process those words. But I’ll tell you all anyone listening to this, it is one thing to watch a movie or to see a CSI, you see people in the trunk of the car, but whenever you know that your loved ones are potentially you could be, it’s a very, it’s obviously very upsetting. And even more upsetting, and just, you know, it’s to know that these people, you know, they prove they will pretending to be from out of town when they were actually are out of state when they were actually just across town. But knowing that from within our own community, there were people capable of doing this type of crime. And nothing was bad enough, they put them on the trunk of that car. But he also, before you close the trunk, he he pulls up his cell phone, and he takes a picture of them on the trunk of that car. And he texted to his wife. And we can only guess that he did that to kind of show the wife that their plan of kidnapping this rich woman for for for financial gain was was in play. And you know, from there,

26:20
the house and everything was the house locked back up. And

26:26
so you know, one thing that that was weird, is that he, he thought to when we found this out much, much later, he thought to swipe the kitchen counters clean. So all those realtor business cards for all those agents that have shown that property, yeah. He kind of he got rid of all of that evidence, there was no sign that any agent had ever been this particular property did not. So we are a community that has locked boxes. But this this particular house didn’t have one it had a combo log. So it didn’t really have the tracking capabilities. But I’ll tell you what he didn’t do what he forgot. Is that he you know, and you ladies know this, you know, whenever I’m in a room with ladies always say, you know whether it’s for safety or just convenience. Ladies don’t show properties with the person their shoulder, almost a pack and heat. Yeah, but but as you know, in general rule, you just don’t want it in the way. Yeah, and and also, it’s a good safety thing. You know what your purse snatched. And my mom that absolutely applied my mom, she had left her purse, and that paper client file that I used to make fun of her for those were locked in her car. And so if you can imagine like, when, when my dad ultimately went goes over to that property and kind of check in on her. It’s like, there’s a vacant home. The door wasn’t locked. But here’s my mom’s car and he can see my mom’s purse through the windows and all of her things and it was just Ipsum goodwillie, like she just disappeared. Right? And that’s, that’s a feeling. I’ll say, you know, there are a lot of people that are like, I can’t imagine what you’re going through. And I’m like, absolutely sure you can. You’re human, like we have feelings and we can relate to one another. But the feeling of someone that you love so much just disappearing, the confusion and hopelessness of that is something it’s really hard to relate to. But it’s as you can imagine, awful. My mom, if I haven’t emphasized enough was lovely and precious. But, you know, one thing I don’t think I emphasized enough was that before she went into that property that day, you guys probably had it well and tell him the story. I have it every time I tell the story. It’s like she had that burning feeling in her gut. We know she did, because we had an agreement. And now all of a sudden, you’re flipping the script on me, you’re changing our agreement. And so I have a decision to make, do I show the property or not? They gave a compelling enough reason for her to continue to do that. But, um, you know, it just I just, I hope, more than ever, that people that listen to my mom’s story will feel empowered to if you find yourself in a position where you know that that instinct is kind of flashing at you that, that you get creative. And, you know, maybe it’s not you run to your car as quick as you can and get the hell out of there. Maybe it is, but maybe it’s just that you insist that that that person go toward the property alone, that you’d be outside because lord knows what that particular property there wouldn’t have been a thing that they could harm or Taking and you know being right on the road. Another point before I kind of tell you the rest of the story is that it’s really important to remember, the first time my mom saw, or a plan to actually see these clients face to face was going to be at the bat property that day. And so, you know, that’s why I am so big on pushing for and insisting upon that new client konsult in a public place, and I get as much as anybody that it seems like every client I deal with my real estate office is not convenient to meeting them, like ever. And that’s unfortunate, because our office is amazing. So, you know, I, it’s a Starbucks a place to Starbucks, but But I’m so insistent upon because so many of these, these criminals, they commit the crimes that they do, because they feel they wouldn’t do it if they think they can get away with it. And so if you strip them of their anonymity, by meeting in a public place, and by insisting upon ID, it really becomes a huge deterrent for them. And you know, we have things in place now. I mean, honestly, had mom had just a driver’s license, and a simple Google search, she could have realized that she may not have caught all seven felonies, but she would have caught at least some of the some of the seven felonies that the husband back I actually had on his record. Another thing that, that I want to, to kind of alert everybody to is that in my mom’s case, we talked earlier about how they had call text emailed her this week can take while we’re on this podcast today, we can take 60 seconds, and any of us could create a new email account with any old crazy name to match a story. So we can’t, if John Smith is calling you, and he’s emailing you from John Smith at AOL. Then AOL man that was a throwback. Hello. But yeah, don’t don’t let an email a name and an email address. So be a verifier of identification. Also, and I’m sure you guys know this in your market. And you know, how we’re getting all these local calls. And so you answer like, hoping it’s a lead, but it’s actually someone trying to solicit to you call center or something. It’s like, why? Right. And so just the opposite happened with my mom’s case, they used an app, called the name of the app was called text me. And what it did is it provided the bad guys with a spoof number. So as they called and as they text my mom, she was getting an she was getting an out of state number that kind of helped further their story of them being out of state. Wow. When in fact, they were just right across town.

32:59
That is crazy. Yeah, yeah. Crazy. I mean, so they, they really did some planning.

33:08
They did, they did. And you know, this visually, kind of when we think about realtor safety, there are two things that we really have to prepare for. And one is like what happened to my mom, where it was predatory in nature, and you can really ward off a lot of that through the screen. The second R, the second type, of course of crime is going to be just an opportunity of crime that’s going to be someone seizes based on their, their drive and by an open house, and they see an opportunity to to act and so yeah, they’re different things that we have to do. I could talk all day on that. Yeah, but back to my sweet mom so that everybody just knows kind of the rest of the story there is that my mom was taken after she immediately after she was kicked out to a remote area. And she was made to do a video that was going to be sent to my dad. And that was the plan send a series of videos to the husband via this spoof number and then have this have this rich husband, which is so laughable I wish you guys like knew my family like it’s just not the case. And have this husband take all of this family wealth and push it to the cards that were on that were in the real estate agents purse. And so what they would do is take all of those cards and then just utilize them and they had a skimmer and they were going to pull the money kind of that way. Not like a ransom where it’s like you know, unmarked bills square they were going to try to get all this money digitally. But you might already be thinking of a hole in their plan. The plan falls apart. RT whenever in your haste to kidnap the realtor, you forget her purse that she’s left locked in. Right? So the plan from the second he drove off that day, the plan was already there. And he had no idea he actually he had taken her and made her do that ransom request in Arabic. And really that first reporting that my mom did, it was just telling my dad that she was okay. And essentially telling him not to call the cops. And so it was a primer for future videos to come. And that data wasn’t actually that was never delivered to my dad that was played later in the interrogation process. I never got any videos. No, we didn’t. We have actually never even seen that video. We’ve only heard it because the bad guy played it during the interrogation process. He was trying to use as a bargaining tool. Yeah, just monster monster of a person. And, you know, it’s so hard for my mom or dad to hear on this beside of it. You know, my dad kind of blames himself because he’s like, had I known that, that I shouldn’t have called the cops. I wouldn’t have called the cops at night. It’s just like, Dad. You did? Yeah. But I’ll say, what what happened from there is that, you know, they take my mom back to their home, and they lock her up in the master bathroom. And then it’s this, this realization, and it’s this free gal that weighed this plan can’t work with her purse. And later kind of confessed that all without her purse, all this this lady has on her is that literally and it makes me cringe. But that $50 that she had told my dad, she won in that office raffle. She had that in her pocket that day. And so that was really all they were able to get off. Oh my gosh. And so there’s this freakout moment like, Okay, this plan is ruined. So wait, let’s just go back out and get the purse. And then we’ll kick this plan. Well, they never anticipated that everyone everyone knew or barely was going to be. And so that night, I remember when I was out there, where, you know, it’s like I was telling you guys, it was like early fall. So it was like getting cold at nine. We’re all like huddled around and, and we’re like, we’re going through at that point, we were just real estate family members. We weren’t in the business. And so we’re trying to do like any of your family members would do. You know, God forbid something happened to you, where they’re like, using their real estate knowledge thing that you know, that you’ve imparted to try to build scenarios that make you Okay. And so we were like, Okay, well, maybe she got in the car with them, even though we know you never get in the car with clients. And it’s just bad for him anyway, and you know, you just have all these different scenarios, I tried to make her okay. And the later it got, you know, the you resort kind of running out of those scenarios that kind of make her okay. And I remember that night, you know, it was after midnight, and standing around cold confused and seeing headlights off in the distance. And on this side of it now, you know, we know, because that person was stopped and questioned by by a detective that was out on the scene that night. It was the bad guy. And he was coming back out there for the purse. And he was questioned about his knowledge of a local real estate agent that canvassing and worse he denied everything. But what he did from there is that, like so many of these criminals is that they they feel like they have the best brightest plan they’re going to make so much money and then they see blue lights and they freak out because they don’t want to go back to prison. And so they make these these huge leaps to to in my mom’s case, let’s just take everything that she has on her physically of excuse me a value and let’s and then let’s just end her life and so you know, they got that 50 bucks they got it you know it makes sense that they would take her jewelry you know in stories like this, but I’ll tell you these people were so awful that they even took some of my mom’s articles of clothing that she was married I don’t say this upset anybody but it’s just the reality of some of the people that walk among us desperate people out is you know, my mom’s shirt that she was wearing that day when she was shown property was found hanging in the closet of the wife. Yard. Awful, awful. And so, they anyway, they took my mom you know still bound by that green tape. And I took her to I keep saying a remote spot you guys are gonna think every single spot in Arkansas is remote. Which it kind of is but but they they took her to another spot in town outskirts of town and left her for a number of hours before coming back and defend her life and and when they did in her life, they just they took the husband took that tape, that absurd limegreen duct tape that she had been abducted with. He just took strips of that, well, initially, he took that and just begin wrapping it around my mom’s head in an attempt to to suffocate her. When that was unsuccessful, he began tearing strips of that tape and applying interface. So my sweet, precious, perfect mom died by suffocation. As we talked about earlier, this, this husband and wife were caught. Thankfully, my mom’s body was found. They did bury my mom. And so I’m very thankful that, that the investigators were able to piece things together because no one was ever cooperative in the process of finding. I took very, very strong investigators. But so the wife took a plea deal. And so in exchange for her truthful testimony against her own husband, in their crime to to, you know, get this ransom from this realtor, you know, gone wrong and murder her. They she got 30 years in prison with the possibility of parole about 21 years. So that’s about 19 years from now she’ll be parole, unfortunately, I didn’t go into many of the details related to her role in this but she was truly a very vile person had a very, a very strong part in the planning and execution of this. The husband for his role, he got two life sentences without possibility of parole. So he is in prison serving two life sentences. And we don’t have well, when we thank you enough to her yeah, we are, you know, we do have some some opportunities for improvement in our justice system. So we’ve been back to court with him a number of times, he sued the interrogate or the Gantos that the detectives that interrogated him for being to grow up, he sued the prison guards for being too rough. He appealed the court and my mom or the to the court, my mom’s case and law stand up, most recently from within prison who knew you could do this, but he has researched and identified African American federal judges across the country, mailing them death threats, in an attempt to get a federal charge so that he can get out of an Arkansas State Prison. So

43:08
yeah, the journey doesn’t seem to end with with this particular guy. I’ll tell you, after, after, in the aftermath of losing my mom, the bad guy, as you guys know, kind of the there’s this beautiful power of the media. And they were so it was it was an integral part of keeping heat on our case. And finding my mom was a big part in rallying realtors to come out and search for her because my mom was missing for five days before she was found and hundreds of Realtors not just within our area. I mean, some came from your state and to to help search for her. But also, you know, they, it shows all sides. And so these bad guys, especially the husband had quite the mouthpiece in the media and you know, did some harmful things. So I started speaking out and I was like, hey, you know, here’s my mom’s story. Here’s the precious lady that she was the professional that she was. And I was like that kid on the playground. I mean, you know, at the ripe old age 34 I think at that time, and I was just, I was just taking up for my mom. And what what I’ve found is that that’s that’s led me to this moment talking to you is that it? As I started having these conversations, I learned that we could we could learn so much from my mom’s story so

44:38
much. And

44:42
as you’re gonna find to like, and I hope that anybody listening to this will engage with all of us and just there are so many agents out there that have stories, right and yes, you know what happened my mom may in in many respects be a lightning strike. But there are agents that have all types of stories of from times that they felt vulnerable and have an open house to times that they’ve been victimized through harassment, stalking, some Hainsey creep, you know, someone’s stealing prescription drugs from an open house, you know, the list goes on and on. And so it is it’s really kind of reinforced. Kind of what we’re doing, you know, unless we mom’s name, you know, just to help keep everybody safe.

45:25
Well, Carl, we want to be respectful of your time. And I feel like we could sit here all day. I feel like we need a part two. I really do. Would you be open to that? Yeah. And

45:39
you know, what I would love for us to sit down. Like I have this list of this running list of things that I’ve learned like safety tips, yeah, finger technology, safety technology. We could sit down and do it part two and talk to you all, I would love that.

45:54
That’s awesome. I mean, you’re amazing. Yeah, just thank you for sharing. It’s so important. It’s so important. And we normally end every episode with a toast, and cheers to somebody else’s success. But we’re just going to take a 10 second moment of silence right now to just reflect on what we’ve been talking about. And to remember Beverly, so thank you so much, Carl.

46:31
sure to tune in next week for part two of our interview with Carl Carter.